Jonathan Drake

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Posts by Jonathan Drake

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  10

  Apocalyptic 2 Esdras 2

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  await your shepherd; he will give you everlasting rest, because he who will come at the end of the age is close at hand.

  be ready for the rewards of the kingdom.

  ... receive what the lord has entrusted to you and be joyful, giving thanks to him who has called you to heavenly kingdoms..

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  Jonathan Drake

  All Christians and Jews consider Ezra and Nehemiah to be canonical. Jews, Roman Catholics, and Protestants do not generally recognize 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras as being canonical. Eastern Orthodox generally consider 1 Esdras to be canonical, but not 2 Esdras. The Jewish Apocalypse of Ezra is part of the Syriac and Ethiopian traditions and in the Apocrypha of the Armenian Church.
  

  CAUTION: the above was taken from wiki - not necessarily trustworthy.

  This would make sense. According to the bible the original purpose was for the Jews to accept the messiah. But they didn't. It makes sense this could be a vision of the end of that era where the Jews accepted Christ. But as it became more apparent they would not, and then they didn't, the means by which the purpose was to be realized changed. 

  So I have trouble seeing what this proves, even if it resembles revelation. If it was an older writing than revelation from a source other than Jewish or Christian in nature then there would be room to make an argument. 
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  10

  Apocalyptic 2 Esdras 2

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  await your shepherd; he will give you everlasting rest, because he who will come at the end of the age is close at hand.

  be ready for the rewards of the kingdom.

  ... receive what the lord has entrusted to you and be joyful, giving thanks to him who has called you to heavenly kingdoms..

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  Jonathan Drake

  The point is.......?
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  143

  Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

  over 2 minutes of pranking .

  as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

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  Jonathan Drake

  @OUTLAW...agreed...I'm getting slated on other exjw sites for similar views...
  

  Saw this, well done IMO. You remained far more civil than I would have.
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  16

  Could a religion caught up in abuse and fraud possibly be "true"?

  by Jonathan Drake in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i recently had a discussion with a witness in which we were talking about the catholic church.

  i led them out with talk about the fraud and child abuse scandals and everyone was agreeing and making comments about how terrible it is and how obviously wrong they are.

  after about 30 minutes of solid rapport building in this manner, even incorporating scriptures regarding some doctrinal errors in their doctrine (catholic), i said this:.

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  Jonathan Drake

  Vidiot18 minutes ago

  Jonathan Drake - "Could a religion caught up in abuse and fraud possibly be 'true'?"

  Nope.

  And they've even said so themselves. 

  
  

  Omg your right! I need to find that quote! I bet it's on that jwfacts page cappy posted. I need to read that article in full when I get time later.
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  143

  Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

  over 2 minutes of pranking .

  as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

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  Jonathan Drake

  Trust me, the GB know to hang up once they are asked questions as mentioned Jonathan. They know a person would be recording it if they went through the trouble to ask them the questions. 

  It it doesn't stop them in person (conventions, bethel meetings, yearly meeting, zone visit) and if we are going to credit them with being smart enough to know they are being recorded on the phone then surely they know they are being recorded at these events. Yet they keep showing their true colors and saying insane things. To imagine him talking to a confused bethelite or brother saying lying is okay if it's theocratic warfare is no stretch, especially since a previous comment explained why he even picked up the phone to begin with. (It likely appears to come from within bethel)
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  143

  Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

  over 2 minutes of pranking .

  as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

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  Jonathan Drake

  He did not think he would actually, ever get through

  As far as this goes, I grow tired of reading it. If you are passionate about something then you will not blow your chance just because it surprises you. If you are fixated on Anthony Morris and his outrageous comments (which cedars is), if you've run through your mind what you'd like to say to him and even made videos about it (which cedars has), then regardless of whether it surprised you that he answered or not you'd have been able to articulate your passionate feelings well and without challenge. 

  The truth is that cedars didn't care if he got through, which is why he was unprepared for the possibility. And instead of addressing real issues, he ignored the likes of Candace Conti, the scandal of draining bank accounts, and various other real important matters. He used this only has a stunt for attention to himself specifically because he views the real important matters as inferior to his own ideas, his own battles, and his own ego. That's very clearly who he is, and this proves it if nothing else about his behavior thus far has been sufficient.
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  303

  The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen

  by TerryWalstrom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl6e4emx-4k

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  Jonathan Drake

  Wow that was amazing. I loved this video. the way he explains the difference between history as we see it and history as they saw it is so so good.
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  29

  Devolution, not evolution

  by abiather in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  scientists discovered an organism that has not evolved in more than 2 billion years (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150203104131.htm) .

  one can dismiss this as an exception*!

  yet overwhelming proofs are too obvious to miss if we take the community as an individual (community is the reflection of the behavior pattern of the individuals that make up the whole).

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  Jonathan Drake

  Abiathar. People raised or exposed to JW doctrine such as ourselves must, WE MUST, be willing to admit we are woefully of science. The same is true of many raised or exposed to religion. 

  Before you can speak on the subject, you must educate yourself. Evolution is a fact, it is truth. It does not disprove God, nor does it prove God - but God is not the subject here. Evolution appears to be your topic, and evolution is proven. Please watch the show Cosmos with Neil degrades Tyson, season one episode 2 - I believe it's on Netflix. Buy some books, read up on it. Watch the following:

  
  

  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3mIfmeHzdQc

  
  

  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cid4WhXyAjM

  
  

  Don't be a slave to enforced ignorance or brainwashing.
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  143

  Prank call to Governing Body member Anthony Morris III gets through

  by Watchtower-Free in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  alert..............alert.....breaking news .......... john cedars of jwsurvey has pranked called governing body member anthony morris iii at bethel .

  over 2 minutes of pranking .

  as i type he is editing the recording into a video .

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  Jonathan Drake

  I think the only people who idolized the GB are those who cared far too much about position and titles.
  

  Ive been thinking this all day because of the video. I honestly think those who have left idolize them more than those who are in. People inside will say, "their just imperfect men" but many who leave seem to focus on them way more as some real big deal.

  In this video for instance Cedars focuses on how he laughed at his, "Jehovah's hand" remark like it's somehow telling of Anthony's inside knowledge of God being fake. It doesn't do this at all, Cedars is making an assumption and using innuendo to suggest it but it doesn't. People inside the org joke all the time about Jehovah's hand being in something silly. "Oh look there's one more piece of pie just for me, must be Jehovah's hand" is just one real example I witnessed; and there are many more. Any witness who saw this would just see exactly what you've pointed out:

  1. They are not out of reach elitist leaders

  2. They are witty normal human beings

  3. Once you insult them directly they just turn the other cheek and hang up.

  meanwhile Cedars looks like a "mentally diseased", obsessive person who went to great lengths to contact Anthony and act like a 12 year old.
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  16

  Could a religion caught up in abuse and fraud possibly be "true"?

  by Jonathan Drake in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i recently had a discussion with a witness in which we were talking about the catholic church.

  i led them out with talk about the fraud and child abuse scandals and everyone was agreeing and making comments about how terrible it is and how obviously wrong they are.

  after about 30 minutes of solid rapport building in this manner, even incorporating scriptures regarding some doctrinal errors in their doctrine (catholic), i said this:.

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  Jonathan Drake

  No list but still very helpful thank you, I didn't even think to check jwfacts. I can use this even if no list is available.

  my hope is to use this strategy going forward with any I can. But next time I want to be prepared with the very proof they challenge does not exist.